Battle of the Minds: KIRA (Light) vs ZERO (Lelouch)

Battle of the Minds: KIRA (Light) vs ZERO (Lelouch)

Postby sgn15 » April 7th, 2015, 7:36 am

Light Yagami (Death Note)
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vs

Lelouch vi Britannia (Code Geass)
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Who do you think would win in this strategic psychological warfare?
Last edited by sgn15 on April 11th, 2015, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 7th, 2015, 7:44 am

Both have nearly same intelligence.. But I personally think that Lelouch will win over Light.. First of all, Lelouch knows better on how to manipulate people rather than Light.. Secondly, Light always tries to pull strings from far away, whereas Lelouch enters the battlefield himself and then analyses the situation and based on that gives orders.. Thirdly, Light lost whereas Lelouch won. :P
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby barfix » April 7th, 2015, 8:08 am

Also to add to that, Light lets success and excitments get the best of him, hence why he lost, he left holes in his "impenetrable" plan to become a "god"... too bad for him but Lelouhe is planning everything before hand and a couple of steps ahead and if there is an unpredictable move he will come up with an idea that will not be too suspicious.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby bashscrazy » April 7th, 2015, 10:56 am

barfix wrote:Lelouhe


Why?! For the love god why!?! (wanted to use all caps but rules have just been enforced :()
Why do people always add this non-existent e to the end of Lelouch's name?

Anyways, I would go with Lelouch as well. Light can manipulate people better than Lelouch without his geass power, but he gets too cocky.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 7th, 2015, 11:02 am

Nope.. He can't.. Didn't you see how Lelouch manipulated all the criminals (Don't remember the group name) WITHOUT his geass?
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby Aeslay » April 7th, 2015, 12:07 pm

Yeah, it's gotta be Lelouch. Other than what has already been said, Light's power is basically useless against someone who's name and face he doesn't know, which Zero hides all the time. And Lelouch's got a giant Nightmare, try fighting that with your Death Note.

Also, you add "Spoilers" to the name of the thread, since we're posting a lot of them.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby sgn15 » April 7th, 2015, 2:34 pm

Light can be a quick thinker too, like when he accidentally met Raye Penber's girlfriend and he had to think quick how to get her real name while investigating what she knows about Kira. In a way, Light also has his own "Zero" which is Kira, although it works differently. They both suck at physical combat/abilities.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby Aeslay » April 7th, 2015, 2:57 pm

Light hiding his identity doesn't really matter to Lelouch because he don't need to know Light. He can just kill Kira instead. But that's not the case with Light, since he would not only have to know Lelouch's face, but also he's real name, Lelouch vi Britannia. Also, Lelouch has infinity amount of people he can use while Kira has to work alone.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby sgn15 » April 7th, 2015, 3:10 pm

So who has the better "Just as planned" face expression? XD
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby bashscrazy » April 7th, 2015, 8:22 pm

sgn15 wrote:Light Yagami (Death Note)
Who do you think would win in this strategic psychological warfare?


I thought this was the question? Why are we bringing up Death Note powers and Knightmare frames.
I thought it was supposed to be psychological warfare. Physical strength doesn't matter here. Purely Intellect and mind games.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby Aeslay » April 8th, 2015, 12:19 am

I'm bringing powers in because that question can be answered with just one post or reading both characters' wiki pages. And seeing a thread made for discussion end with just a link to Light's and Lelouch's wiki pages would be kinda sad.

Light let the becoming the god thing get to his head, and got too close to his enemies. He trusted everyone working for him to follow his every commend and did not consider what would happen if they didn't. He didn't have the resolve to sacrifice his own life to get Shinigami's eyes. He's goal depended on Death Note, without it, he couldn't have done anything but live a normal life. I'm not saying Light was just dumb. But he was great, but even if he had survived, I don't see him ever actually winning and making the world the way he wants.

Now let's look at Lelouch. He always planned to make a better world without even knowing that such thing as the Geass exists. I believe he could've achieved his goal without it, seeing how most, if not all, of the occasions where he faced any real trouble was because Geass existed. Other than C.C, No one knew of his plans till the end, yet people still followed him. He was facing not just normal people, but also people with real superpowers and yet, he manged to recover from and overcome every situation, not matter how bad it got and, eventually, ruled over the entire world.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 8th, 2015, 2:01 am

bashscrazy wrote:
sgn15 wrote:Light Yagami (Death Note)
Who do you think would win in this strategic psychological warfare?


I thought this was the question? Why are we bringing up Death Note powers and Knightmare frames.
I thought it was supposed to be psychological warfare. Physical strength doesn't matter here. Purely Intellect and mind games.


This question is hypothetical.. You cannot answer it without introducing their super powers as they gained those for a reason.. Different situation and circumstances matter..

Light was an arrogant bastard who thought that killing criminals is the only way to find justice.. So in order to that or leave the plan untainted, he also kills innocent person who become aware of his plans..

In other case, Lelouch only wants to destroy Britannia for what they did to his mother and Japan.. He seeks to make world a better place WITHOUT Britannia.. And as we know, Lelouch was correct.. Britannia would kill anyone coming on their way... So at the same time, he looks evil but his motives are clear that he want to make world a better place..

Light on the other hand just have a selfish motive of being a god...

So in this matter, clearer motive gains a point.. Therefore this is another reason as to why Lelouch will win over Light..
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby riquelme375 » April 9th, 2015, 5:32 am

I think lelouch is sort of "cheating", because you CANNOT PREDICT CONVERSATIONS.
It just doesnt make sense.
If lelouch says something and the one he's trying to trick (with the screen, like he ALWAYS does) thinks of something that happens to him once, and it changed his entire way of speaking, lelouch is lucky.
You need to be smart to know what people will do, but you have to be someone who sees the future to know what people will say or think.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 9th, 2015, 6:04 am

And how is then Lelouch cheating then? If he is smart enough to PREDICT one's conversation without geass then how is that called as cheating?
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby Aeslay » April 9th, 2015, 10:37 am

riquelme375 wrote:I think lelouch is sort of "cheating", because you CANNOT PREDICT CONVERSATIONS.
It just doesnt make sense.
If lelouch says something and the one he's trying to trick (with the screen, like he ALWAYS does) thinks of something that happens to him once, and it changed his entire way of speaking, lelouch is lucky.
You need to be smart to know what people will do, but you have to be someone who sees the future to know what people will say or think.


I don't think that's true. Lelouch don't just predicts anything, he thinks of all the possible things that can happen, and what would he do in each situation. He don't assume something and decided to act on it. Like when Mao says C.C.'s name, Lelouch instantly comes up with fourteen different possibilities for Mao's identity - including the correct one. And that was like, in just a second. I'd say he can see the future pretty well.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 9th, 2015, 11:48 am

In other words, he can PREDICT the future.. :P One of the smartest qualities in him..
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby riquelme375 » April 10th, 2015, 1:57 pm

It is "sort of" possible to consider all the options, but making an answer that makes sense to all of them is impossible, also, if for example, lelouch says "Remember x place?" and the one he's talking to suddenly is filled with nostalgia about living there, and answers 2 seconds too late, then lelouch starts talking in the middle of a sentence (because he didnt predict that the one he's talking to would stop to think, because you can predict someone's actions, but NOT someone's thoughts), well lelouch is lucky.
I consider it "cheating" because it is SORT OF possible, but in reality just too unlikely, kind of like how in death note near goes "hmm that guy looks like kira." and guess who was the third kira? that guy, lucky hell.
Even if the one he's talking to has 40% to say one option, (which is high) lelouch still needs to predict him several times, so say the first option is 40%, second as well, and so is third (once again, even these odds are unrealistically in lelouch's favor) the chance of lelouch getting all three right is 6.4%. And that is if, as i've said, i make the numbers add up in his favor.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby Aeslay » April 10th, 2015, 2:47 pm

First, you don't need to predict someone's thoughts to win- Predicting actions will suffice. Second, he can predict thoughts, as seen when he was able to predict the questions Mao would ask and answer them and even paused at breaks he thought maow would speak at, and when he predicted the whole conversation he would have with Clovis.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby riquelme375 » April 10th, 2015, 3:14 pm

Exactly, he can do that, which i think is absolutely impossible, because of the reasons i mentioned above.
Also i think you mean schneizel and not clovis?
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 10th, 2015, 4:12 pm

I think we don't consider anime in terms of reality.. Or is it possible to have a Death Note in reality or Geass? If you consider anime, reality fails there as it is the work of fiction..
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby Aeslay » April 10th, 2015, 5:40 pm

riquelme375 wrote:Exactly, he can do that, which i think is absolutely impossible, because of the reasons i mentioned above.
Also i think you mean schneizel and not clovis?


But that the point, he was supposed to be smart enough to make the unlikely happen. He was supposed to smart enough to be able to do what you would consider impossible. If he wasn't like that, he wouldn't be the main character, one who was able to do what billions of others couldn't. Calling that cheating isn't gonna change what happened. I don't think this can even be considered an argument- we're just praising Lelouch.

It's been more than 3 years since I last watch Code Geass, so I may be wrong. But I think he predicted the conversation he would have with Clovis, showed up in front of him and in the end used Geass to turn him to his side. Again, I may be wrong. I'm actually surprised I remember so much even after 3 year.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 10th, 2015, 6:34 pm

He never turned Clovis to his side.. He killed him instead.. Actually he never turned any of his siblings to his side (except nunnally)..
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby riquelme375 » April 10th, 2015, 7:04 pm

Clovis is the guy he killed in the third episode, you mean schneizel :P

Also, you are right about things happening in anime that cant happen in real life, but im not talking about supernatural things.
The only difference between code geass and reality is technology and the existence of geass and code.
Since the people are pretty much the same, their minds work the same.

Shivam i dont think what you said is praise to him, since what im saying is you cant know for certain, you can even know for 50%, not even for 10%, so if lelouch actually relied on that with his plans, he doesn't seem very smart to me in that regard. Ofc he didnt, which means that either 1. lelouch just didnt think about it (and i doubt that) or 2. the author didnt think about it (which is what i think).
It just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby Aeslay » April 10th, 2015, 7:46 pm

Yeah, must've been Schneizel. I must've got the name wrong since Schneizel isn't the easiest to remember. Just went around the wiki and saw Clovis got a pretty small role.

Well, Lelouch was shown capable of devising and executing strategies with incredible speed and precision, so I guess him not thinking about it beforehand makes some sense. But whatever the case, we can agree Lelouch would win, even if he is "cheating". Let's not stray too much from the topic.
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Re: Battle of the Minds: Light vs Lelouch

Postby T.O.R.N.A.D.O » April 10th, 2015, 9:28 pm

He will be cheating without even knowing it.. Anime logic.. :P
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